Hello Matt

It is very difficult to know the exact relationship of TB and Thunderbird when the support forum for TB has Support moz://a on the right and you yourself say things like "The changed that Thunderbird 68 brought in the shared code from Mozilla left no alternative...."

Anyway, I agree with your assessment of eM Client. It imported all my email accounts from TB without a hitch but is lacking most features that TB add-ons provided.

Regards

I also have this problem where I have lost all the add-ons I was using for reporting spam stopped working after the update and I'm unable to find any replacements for them. Even disabling extensions.strictCompatibility doesn't work like it is ignoring that boolean.

Erik Mouse said

I also have this problem where I have lost all the add-ons I was using for reporting spam stopped working after the update and I'm unable to find any replacements for them. Even disabling extensions.strictCompatibility doesn't work like it is ignoring that boolean.

It has been a point of notw in just about every document released about this Thunderbird release, and to a lesser extent 60 that add-on that were not actively maintained and updated would not work in new versions. So the boolean is not only ignored, it is no longer relevant as Thunderbird transitions from the old style XUL extensions to mailExtensions.

As for reporting spam, I can imagine few less useful tasks someone could set themselves up for. Report it to who? I am serious with this statement. Reporting spam is a total waste of time most of the time. For you and the person you are emailing the report to. While government department almost universally encourage reporting, they rarely if ever do anything with the reports. It is more of a political move to give folks an outlet.

Historically email providers had an abuse@ email address you could report spam to. My observations here when checking server configurations is that the vast majority of bargain basement domain for the big sellers simply do not have an active abuse@ email address and the existence of an Admin@ or webmaster@ is also not as common as it once was.

However this add-on says it works with Thunderbird 68. https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/signal-spam/?src=search

I guess we all have more and less important add-ons. The new Thunderbird version knows which add-on will work and which won't. Why isn't that shown BEFORE the update? Then I can choose myself when to update. Do I have to wait for the add-on to be working with new TB again or can I work without it.

Working without Stationery (Add-On) is impossible for me, so update this time meant additional hours of work to get old TB-version back.

Or is there an add-on doing exactly that? Checking if all the Add-ons will still work?

The add-on that I lost with the v68 upgrade was Auto Resize Image by TrVTrV, a hugely useful add-on that I used practically every time I attached an image to an email. It saved lots of time having to resize images outside Thunderbird before attaching them to an email.

The comments from a developer in SafeTex's 11/2/19, 4:38 PM post were actually by Auto Resize Image's developer, TrVTrV, and I think you can understand his frustration with Thunderbird's developers as well as the tight-fisted users of his great add-on who donated so little for the privilege of using his add-on.

Anyway, now that Auto Resize Image is seemingly and lamentably gone, might it be possible for TB developers to create a built-in image resizer for TB? I know that Apple's otherwise inferior mail program ("Mail"!) has a built-in image resizer in both Mac OS and iOS versions, and again, it's really handy. So what might the possibilities be for TB? I, and I'm sure many other TB users, would be eternally grateful.

chrisnt1 said

The add-on that I lost with the v68 upgrade was Auto Resize Image by TrVTrV, a hugely useful add-on that I used practically every time I attached an image to an email. It saved lots of time having to resize images outside Thunderbird before attaching them to an email.

This add-on works here in TB 68.3.1, although some of the wording is in Italian:

https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/shrunked-image-resizer/

sfhowes said

This add-on works here in TB 68.3.1, although some of the wording is in Italian: https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/shrunked-image-resizer/

Thanks sfhowes. I've tried out Shrunked Image Resizer and it does work, but it only does jpegs, so compared to Auto Resize Image, extra time has to be spent changing other formats, e.g. pngs, into jpegs. Let's hope that either TrVTrV has a change of heart and brings back Auto Resize Image, or Geoff Lankow adds pngs and other formats to Shrunked Image Resizer, or — preferably — the Thunderbird development team build an image resizer into a (hopefully near) future version of TB.

By the way, I sent this email to TrVTrV a week ago:

Hi TrVTrv,

So sorry to see that you have decided that Mozilla has made it too difficult for you to carry on upgrading Auto Resize Image. It has been an indispensable part of my daily emailing practice and I will really miss it. I hope that I contributed enough €€€ over the years to help cover your work on it. If you ever decide to bring it back, please let me know and I will be willing to help with the costs.

Anyway, Joyeux Noël et Bonne Année, and thanks again for all your work!

Regards, Chris

Thunderbird users are being bicycled around by Mozilla. Bad faith worthy of nefarious insurance companies.

Perhaps YOU can reach out to the appropriate management to get a simple reply to the questions/issues raised by every TB user.

Again ... When the new TB update came about (v 68....), TB disabled one of the most important ad-ons used by overwhelming number of its users: Theme & Font Size Changer. As you likely know, that is necessary for the users to be able to read the tiny font size in the email inbox and panels. That does beg the question: do all Mozilla/TB managers/engineers/designers and coders have eyesight so prolific as to be able to easily read 3-4 pt sized type? Appears that users do not.

For reasons of his own, the dev. for Theme & Font Size Changer appears to not be inlined to update it. Perhaps Mozilla/TB has made it difficult or impossible for him to do that.

Why: 1. Not write the few lines of code to enable TB users to increase font size in mail inbox? We are told that it should be a minor matter. Particularly given the level of complaints. 2. If not #1 above, why disable the ad-on we all use?

The courtesy of a response would be appreciated.

(FYI I'm deleting some duplicates of this posting to make the topic history less confusing)

SafeTex said

Hello I updated from version 60.? to 68.2 tonight and 11 out of my 13 add ons no longer work (legacies) I've said it before but TB updates are getting to be as problematic as Window updates. Don't the idiot developers understand why this is not acceptable? I can barely use Thunderbird tonight. TB may be free but I make voluntary contributions to Mozilla but not for this shit. Continue like this and very few people will bother to write add-ons for TB and very few people will bother to install them either. TB say that updates have improvements but it's one step forward and 11 steps back tonight for me. Can a volunteer answer this please and pass it on to development? Thanks

(FYI I'm deleting some duplicates of this posting to make the topic history less confusing)

sjmanning

Just in case you have not worked it out, all the volunteers, including myself have stopped trying to help individuals that are not able to accept that things have changed and will not be going back to what they were. Those that think support is where you file bugs and make enhancement requests also get a poor return on their investment. If the bugs or enhancements ever get into bugzilla relies on some volunteer to notice, and filing the bug. I would suggest efficient use of resources is the one asking for something should be filing the bug. That would be you.

Clearly change in the customization options are needed, have you filed a bug requesting such a change? I have been subscribed to a bug on the topic for a long time. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=570442

Perhaps you need to do the same, then you will be informed and can stop asking for the consideration of a reply. The consideration is I really have limited time to support Thunderbird. So do the other folks that offer their time to do support. So perhaps you need to use your time to learn about the topic instead of expecting someone else to learn on your behalf and filter it down to something you can digest. I have issues with the adoption of web extensions, but I have taken the time to find out why the change to Thunderbird occurred. So I do not like it, but accept it was inevitable.

This is an open source project. So there is no development department to get on the line, most of the world understands that, except the USA where they appear to think they can ring someone to do everything for them. Noteworthy is the project also does not have a phone or an office it is a truly international effort, with staff and active community from a very large number if nations. I think most time zones are covered. So I strongly suggest you utilize the information already available to you instead of asking others to locate it for you. My time writing this has probably seen two or three folk that are not getting their mail miss out on support. I could have ignored you, but given you have made a determined effort to spam the list and your fellow users of Thunderbird. I felt I had to make an effort to stop that silliness now, before I have to revoke your right to access the forum for not using it in an acceptable manner. Your post does not help SafeTex, and all posts are technically supposed to try and help the original poster of a topic.

So if you continue to spam this topic, I will lock it.

sjmanning re :Theme & Font Size Changer. As you likely know, that is necessary for the users to be able to read the tiny font size in the email inbox and panels. If someone wants to produce an addon then they can, but you use it at your own risk and the author chooses to maintain, update or not as the case may be in order to work with Thunderbird and Not the other way around.

Developers applied other means to address general UI font size issue which have been answered in several questions recently and is easily located via the 'find help' search in this forum or google. For 'Windows OS':

• Menu app icon (3 lines) > Options > Options > Advanced > 'General' tab
• You may see a friendly warning accept the risk.
• In search type : pixels
• look for this line: layout.css.devPixelsPerPx

the default value is -1.0

• double click on that line to open a small window OR right-click the preference and select 'Modify' which allows you to change the 'Value'

You can try values such as 1.20 or 1.25 or 1.5 or 2.0 or 2.20 As the number increases so does font size

• click on 'OK'

I have just been on Bugzilla and read

Bug 570442 Opened 10 years ago !!! (Updated 13 days ago)

And the posts are very technical and beyond most of us.

Also, as Firefox is an open-source, it is indeed very hard to work out who gets to make decisions about it.

So I don't understand for instance the statement

"and the author chooses to maintain, update or not as the case may be in order to work with Thunderbird and Not the other way around."

Why should add on developers and users continually have to align with the ever changing Thunderbird?

No one explains to us in simple terms why TB developers think all these changes are necessary. For us, the product was working with our add-ons and then it all goes arse over tit yet again.

Regards

re :Why should add on developers and users continually have to align with the ever changing Thunderbird?

Same reason why Anti-Virus products have to ensure they work with the products they claim to protect and why they need to keep updating to keep up to date with new virus's etc. Nothing is static.

When Thunderbird updates for various reasons, they are mainly to do with security reasons with bug fixes and modifications included. So when someone creates an addon and claims it will work with Thunderbird, then it is their responsibity to ensure it works. Due to recent significant changes, it means those who created addons have to update which may mean learning new code and possibly a complete rewrite. This costs time and effort and not all addon authors feel they can afford this. You would be amazed how many people do not contribute/donate for the addons they use. So it's hardly supprising that some authors are not wishing to maintain their addons.

Toad-Hall said

... those who created addons have to update which may mean learning new code and possibly a complete rewrite. This costs time and effort and not all addon authors feel they can afford this. You would be amazed how many people do not contribute/donate for the addons they use. So it's hardly surprising that some authors are not wishing to maintain their addons.

As Toad-Hall points out, the problem really is that people use addons but they aren't willing to pay their authors a reasonable price for using them. That's why I think we lost one of my favourites, Auto Resize Image. The author said he just couldn't afford to keep it updated because so few users were contributing. I offered (see my 12/26/19 post above) to help with his costs of further development but I didn't hear back. I guess he's just not interested anymore. That's really, really too bad.

Hello Chrisnt1

Not enough people paying for add-ons is certainly part of the problem but don't let yourself be fobbed of by this completely either.

Add-on developers have said on their sites that it's a question of time too cos when you already have low income for the above reason, you don't want to spend ages modifying your code either to keep up with constant TB updates needing new code

On the security issue, it's weird too that TB has so many updates.

the Avast Browser doesn't seem to need so many updates to stay secure.

And finally, we now get messages when we open TB to make a donation for "development and infrastructure"

So are TB developers being paid and if so which ones?

it's interesting that TB has very close links with Mozilla who are always going on about transparency but this message is not even signed. And there is no further info on this aspect so don't be surprised if one or two people are now getting very rich thanks to TB.

But this is always a problem for any open source programs that are successful at first. How to organize and make decisions, how to have transparency when it's so nebulous at times.

re :The new Thunderbird version knows which add-on will work and which won't. Why isn't that shown BEFORE the update?

It is and always has been.

You can check the information on the addon extension information - same place where you get the download and you can check what updates etc occur in Thunderbird by reading the release notes. eg: https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/theme-font-size-changer-fixed/ Works with Thunderbird 58.0 - 65.0

https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/68.0/releasenotes/

https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/68.6.0/releasenotes/

Addon authors have been aware of the changes that would occur for a while and information was made available. Obviously, this sort of information would not be used by people who are general Thunderbird users, so they may not have checked that out as the info is not of any benefit to them, but it is easily found by using google. This is just one link to one example. eg: https://developer.thunderbird.net/add-ons/tb68

Lets look at this one thing at a time. I will try and point you to the facts.

SafeTex said

Hello Chrisnt1 Not enough people paying for add-ons is certainly part of the problem but don't let yourself be fobbed of by this completely either.

Interesting you use the term fobbed off. The reality is the addon authors owe you nothing. So I guess you being fobbed off by people that really have taken their bat and ball and gone home. Some an sick of working for nothing, others have moved on with their lives. Yet others are not prepared to undertake the major rewrite of their addon that is required so it can function in the new environment without any financial return. Whatever the reasons, they are not playing anymore. End of discussion.

Add-on developers have said on their sites that it's a question of time too cos when you already have low income for the above reason, you don't want to spend ages modifying your code either to keep up with constant TB updates needing new code

I would actually like to challenge some of those statements. Despite claims to the contrary, there has really not been a previous major change to addons code in the past. When Thunderbird 60 released with the first lot of these changes, there were still addons functioning that had not been touched by their original authors for close to a decade. For the first time it was update or perish. Lots perished due to having technically died years ago, having not seen an update in years.

It is difficult to get a person interested in an addon they wrote 8 or 10 years ago while still in school. Especially if they have moved on from student to highly paid professional. However the Mozilla platform has changed. There is no ignoring it. You either play in the new playground with the new toys or you leave.

It is not some idea the Thunderbird developers came up one day over coffee with the intent to see how many people they could upset with a gratuitous change. It is a hard won change that has been delayed as long as was possible and will not be fully implemented until Thunderbird 78.

Previously there may have been incompatibilities because something in the user interface changed, but on this occasions the entire construction of addons has changed. How they initiate, how they interact with the main program and what they can do has all changed and continues to change. Mozilla have removed the code from the Mozilla platform that enabled old style addons, so they will not be coming back. I suggest you have a look at the addon developers mailing list. It makes interesting reading really. https://thunderbird.topicbox.com/groups/addons

This is a dynamic situation that will see vast changes for the next major release to what exists in the current 68 version as there is a hybrid arrangement for now which allowed old style addons to work in the new environment for a short period with minimal change.

On the security issue, it's weird too that TB has so many updates.

Perhaps your naivety in how security updates work, and how Thunderbird works and interacts with the Mozilla platform might have something to do with that. Thunderbird is built on the Mozilla engine. This means that the Thunderbird developers actually leverage a lot of the core Mozilla functionality to make Thunderbird. It also means that if Firefox is vulnerable, usually so is Thunderbird. A benefit of the use of the engine is Mozilla do the security fixes. Thunderbird does not have to find the resources to independently fix security issues in the core platform, but it also inherits a lot from the platform, like the rendering engine that displays web pages and emails.

Mozilla do publish list of these security items here https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/security/advisories/ You will notice that the issues have CVE numbers allocated. These common vulnerability and Exposure numbers are administered by this group https://cve.mitre.org/

CVE is sponsored by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA). This is not just about Thunderbird or Firefox. vulnerabilities are big issues and involve all software makers.

I find it absolutely astounding that you are trying to use an active security update process to substantiate your position.

Avast Browser doesn't seem to need so many updates to stay secure.

Are you sure? absence of updates does not make it secure. All that indicates is it is not being updated. Avast appears to have lots of their own CVE's I searched just on avast and got 46 https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=avast I am sure there are more, under other terms. However as the Avast browser is based on the open source Chromium browser, I guess their CVE's also apply. There are 1400+ of them. https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=Chromium

Se we now have Chrome, Chromium, Edge and Avast basically offering the same thing. But are they all updating for known vulnerabilities? I really don't know.

And finally, we now get messages when we open TB to make a donation for "development and infrastructure"

The project has been soliciting donations for years. It is not a "now" thing. I have emails from Donors asking questions dating back to 2016. So it in not something "new". Donors also get given an email address to ask questions about donations. Would the fact you are asking them here suggest you are yet to make a financial contribution?

So are TB developers being paid and if so which ones?

I am not even sure who all the staff are, let alone what their assignments are. That is really a question for the Council. They are the ones running the project and hiring the staff. There are details of the council members here https://wiki.mozilla.org/Modules/Thunderbird#Thunderbird_Council there is also a list of core contributors here https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Core_Team of that group, about the only one I can speak for is myself. I do not get paid. I would suggest however, that your right to know might also be dependent on your contributions.

it's interesting that TB has very close links with Mozilla

Up until recently they were the legal home of Thunderbird. Now they are, I suppose, the legal owners as Thunderbird's home is now a wholly owned subsidiary company of Mozilla foundation. However the council is elected by the community for a 12 month term and Mozilla do not have any real "management" role.

who are always going on about transparency but this message is not even signed.

Seriously I have no idea what message you are even talking about. This thread rambles around over three pages and really goes nowhere. Your addons were disabled and you are not happy about it. I think we got that covered in the first couple of posts. This last one, I think perhaps I should have deleted it, not replied to it.

Private companies do not generally publish all their financials. This might be an open source project, but MZLA Technologies Corporation , a California corporation, is wholly owned by the Mozilla Foundation. See https://blog.thunderbird.net/2020/01/thunderbirds-new-home/

And there is no further info on this aspect so don't be surprised if one or two people are now getting very rich thanks to TB.

Suggestions of impropriety you have put forward are rather insulting to people who have worked hard for many years to keep this project running and actually getting it to a place where it can grow. Over the years since Mozilla ceased development in 2012 Thunderbird came close to ceasing to exist. The changes to the Mozilla platform to which the project is irrevocably tied were breaking the product faster that the few volunteers could fix it. The Firefox quantum project amounted to the wholesale removal of huge swathes of the code Thunderbird relied on. This along with the Commitment to remove XUL (that is the bit used to make the user interface, lists boxes editors windows etc) and move to "web extensions" brought more huge changes. If you have the time there are many archived emails of the discussions that occurred on the way forward. But it became obvious even to the non coders early on that Thunderbird did not and does not have the resources to continue to maintain all the code Mozilla had removed. So the project has had to "go with the flow" . It is also the reason that there will be more changes in the next release of Thunderbird. Because we will be moving to the full web extensions API, not the old system.

This has meant major redevelopment as the options for web extensions are browser centric and the Thunderbird team are now in the process of building the interfaces that developers can use to access Thunderbird. It is a slow and difficult road, not helped by folks that simply are not involved in the detail thinking that they have a say. They don't, any more than I do!

But this is always a problem for any open source programs that are successful at first. How to organize and make decisions, how to have transparency when it's so nebulous at times.

There is always a problem when folks cast aspersions about the veracity of honorable people. Before you cast any more stones about who is getting rich, perhaps you might like to do some research. I have done all the research I intend to do for you. I suggest you start here. https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/get-involved/ and https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/about/

On the point about security updates / changes / vulnerabilities ...

One only need look at the constant stream of updates done by Apple, Microsoft and other big names to recognize that attack surfaces in most products are deep, wide and never-ending - new pathways are always being discovered.

Email may be different in some ways from other products, but it isn't some dinky little application. Therefore, you can expect a constant stream of security updates.

> Avast Browser doesn't seem to need so many updates to stay secure.

(Edited response - I was initially thinking Avast AV)

I think Matt has fairly adequately responded about the browser. I would emphasize that a browser supplied by an AV vendor doesn't automatically make it more secure than other browsers. (and so far I haven't adopted any of them even though I am fairly security conscious; I just use Safari, Firefox and Chrome with appropriate security settings and practices, and some enhancements)

sjmanning said

The courtesy of a response would be appreciated.

Here is the courteous response....

sjmanning said

... Again ... When the new TB update came about (v 68....), TB disabled one of the most important ad-ons used by overwhelming number of its users: Theme & Font Size Changer. As you likely know, that is necessary for the users to be able to read the tiny font size in the email inbox and panels. That does beg the question: do all Mozilla/TB managers/engineers/designers and coders have eyesight so prolific as to be able to easily read 3-4 pt sized type? Appears that users do not.

I get that you are frustrated, I also very much miss TFSC. But you are also being absurd - developers (both paid and volunteer) deliver features and fixes for all kinds of things which have no value to them personally.

It broke because of a combination of: a) the author of the first TFSC abandoned the add-on (well before version 68), and then the person who forked it also abandoned it, b) unrelated to the specific functionality that TFSC delivers the infrastructure bits of add-ons changed, out of necessity (as Matt and others may have explained)

sjmanning said

For reasons of his own, the dev. for Theme & Font Size Changer appears to not be inlined to update it. Perhaps Mozilla/TB has made it difficult or impossible for him to do that. Why: 1. Not write the few lines of code to enable TB users to increase font size in mail inbox? We are told that it should be a minor matter.

Perhaps you could tell us who told you that it would be minor, and where? (URLs are nice)

If it was me who said it, sorry, I was wrong. A couple weeks ago contacted the developer I thought most likely might be able to deliver at least partial relief. He too thought it might be easy - but after looking at it a few times he decided no, "not so easy". So no, it's not a few lines of code (seriously) - it requires more fundamental changes. But the good news is the issue is on his radar and he's a good bloke.