Hi Vanidor, if you have used "tabs on bottom" code in your userChrome.css file for a while, you probably remember having to make updates every 8-15 versions. It's time to update again. Could you check this thread for new code and discussion: https://support.mozilla.org/questions/1338147

Yeah, I've looked over the "latest" userchrome.css code, and tried implementing it. It puts the tabs underneath the toolbar and menu bars, but either places a space between the tabs and the bookmark bar, and/or covers part of the tabs with the page window, leaving only the current open tab fully displayed, like the tab is hanging over it, the other tabs can JUST be seen and clicked on. I've looked over/through various height/width adjustments and implemented them, with none working. Currently working with no userchrome.css, leaving the tabs above the url bar

Anyone know of a nice, simple, streamlined, easy-to-use browser not connected with Google, nor part of a censorship-loving politically active company/ organization (like Mozilla)?* One that offers the basics in a user-friendly format, without loading the user down with techie falderal?

I'm finding a teen-ager to help me transfer my bookmarks - as soon as I trim them down - to a more stable browser. The techs at FireFox seem to enjoy toying with new looks just for the heck of it. That is, change for the sake of change. Their tastes are alien to me - and their product is increasingly difficult/ frustrating/ impossible to use.

Some of us have (very) limited technical ability.

Some of us have vision problems.

Some of us are older creatures of habit who don't like strangers upsetting our routines for no solid reason.

And apparently there are many of us who don't want to spend frustrating hours upon frustrating hours to undo the latest obnoxious unnecessary change that FF's techs make to our browsers.

It is increasingly obvious that Firefox doesn't care about us.

It is also intrusive when the update is ready: no notification, no chance to schedule it at a convenient time, just slow what I'm doing to a speed where it cannot be continued. Again, obnoxious. The increasingly disgusting Windows doesn't even do that.

• I'm old-fashioned: I believe that one's politics, as well as one's religion, should remain in their own spheres, and not be pushed on others. This apparently differs with Mozilla's attitude, judging by their newsletters.

Hi atavist, every free browser serves a purpose. In the case of Firefox, it helps Mozilla fulfill its mission of preserving an open internet. You can read more about that here:

https://www.mozilla.org/mission/

If you find a browser that better aligns with your values, go for it.

And until then, you can go to the Options/Preferences/Settings page, type update in the tiny filter box, and set Firefox to notify you about updates instead of installing them automatically ("Check for updates but let you choose to install them").

CLARIFICATION

This was a response to the following comment:

Anyone know of a nice, simple, streamlined, easy-to-use browser not connected with Google, nor part of a censorship-loving politically active company/ organization (like Mozilla)?* ... * I'm old-fashioned: I believe that one's politics, as well as one's religion, should remain in their own spheres, and not be pushed on others. This apparently differs with Mozilla's attitude, judging by their newsletters.

Some of us have (very) limited technical ability. Some of us have vision problems. Some of us are older creatures of habit who don't like strangers upsetting our routines for no solid reason. And apparently there are many of us who don't want to spend frustrating hours upon frustrating hours to undo the latest obnoxious unnecessary change that FF's techs make to our browsers.

Please contact me at databaseben@hotmail.com and i will guide your teenager with getting you back in business and happiness again.  :-)

I have to agree with most of the above! Version 89 (64-bit) was automatically installed yesterday, when I opened a link and Firefox is my default browser. I've been using Firefox for close to a decade and have been involved with using, building, and selling computers since 1983. This update created speeds that an Arctic glacier could easily beat! Wait times for the browser to find numerous pages can be up to a minute. And why ''force feed your users with an update of this gravity without any prior notice? Unless there were specific and known security issues with the immediate-past version, why would you make these changes in a vacuum and force them on your users? One aspect that endeared me t Firefox/Mozilla, was the open, 2-way communication that Mozilla fostered and encouraged between the creators and the users. You used to provide surveys asking what we liked, disliked, wanted, not interested, etc. Now this? That "old way" was what set Firefox apart from the corporate folks at Googles and Microsoft. Now, you're handing us the "golden ticket" to go back to them! As much as I hate to say this, you're pushing many of us to switch to an alternative browser and needing to rebuild all our preferences, settings, tools, bookmarks, etc. What happened?

I have to agree with most of the above! Version 89 (64-bit) was automatically installed yesterday, when I opened a link and Firefox is my default browser. I've been using Firefox for close to a decade and have been involved with using, building, and selling computers since 1983. This update created speeds that an Arctic glacier could easily beat! Wait times for the browser to find numerous pages can be up to a minute. And why ''force feed your users with an update of this gravity without any prior notice? Unless there were specific and known security issues with the immediate-past version, why would you make these changes in a vacuum and force them on your users? One aspect that endeared me t Firefox/Mozilla, was the open, 2-way communication that Mozilla fostered and encouraged between the creators and the users. You used to provide surveys asking what we liked, disliked, wanted, not interested, etc. Now this? That "old way" was what set Firefox apart from the corporate folks at Googles and Microsoft. Now, you're handing us the "golden ticket" to go back to them! As much as I hate to say this, you're pushing many of us to switch to an alternative browser and needing to rebuild all our preferences, settings, tools, bookmarks, etc. What happened?

In some fairness, my computer refused to install the new version. It was because i had disabled the methodologies in FF that invokes automated installations of newer versions. But i do agree with your POV and I have cited as much to Mozilla. So lets wait and see what they will do. For now, nothing is carved in stone. There are just a bunch of recommendations.  :-)

btw: What is your plan? You are going to stick with v89 or downgrade to v88?

This update created speeds that an Arctic glacier could easily beat! Wait times for the browser to find numerous pages can be up to a minute.

That's not normal. Could you start a new question about this problem? Otherwise, it's lost in the UI discuss.

https://support.mozilla.org/questions/new/desktop/form

I thought I would add that while the new version 89 ruined any tweaks I had that helps make Firefox still my favorite, the help I received was excellent concerning the user:chrome dialog. Now, if I could just get back the 3 hours or so of confusion!... I disabled auto updates and config'd to false on proton.

atavist -- Boy, you said a mouthful in your "Today (Thu 6/3/2021) at 10:15 AM" message and you said it far better than I. Thank you. I hope you'll come back here and drop a comment if you find a better alternative to FireFox.

jscher2000 -- in your "Today (Thu 6/3/2021) at 10:33 AM message that reads, in part,

"Hi atavist, every free browser serves a purpose. In the case of Firefox, it helps Mozilla fulfill its mission of preserving an open internet. You can read more about that here:"

You completely missed the point. If Mozilla only pursues its mission of preserving an open internet, it's jumped the rails. The purpose should be to serve its customers as best it can as securely as it can. Your response thumbs the collective noses at Mozilla at all of us. Phooey! Grow up, move out of grandma's basement, get some "real" experience and mature a little.

Your response thumbs the collective noses at Mozilla at all of us. Phooey! Grow up, move out of grandma's basement, get some "real" experience and mature a little.

Don't confuse me with some kind of official spokesperson. I'm not Mozilla, I'm me, and that was my perspective.

I'm not here to say whether you should be happy or unhappy. You feel the way you feel for your own reasons. I've been using desktop computers since 1983 and have had more than my share of aggravation with software changes. I can get as "entitled" as anyone else. You wouldn't want to hear what comes out my mouth when I'm at this keyboard, and woe to my vendors who disappoint me.

But I think you missed the point of my reply to atavist: it was about whether "politics" should be involved with a browser and I responded to that. I should have quoted the specific text to avoid a misunderstanding. Live and learn.

jscher2000 Jun 3, 2021, 6:40:31 AM -- thank you for your response.

I did misunderstand your affiliation / non-affiliation with Mozilla and _I sincerely apologize_ for shooting the wrong target.

I do appreciate your attempts to help and for sticking with this "thread" as long as you have [THANK YOU for that too], but as I said, and others have implied, there is "no joy" thus far.

My frustration remains extremely high and I stand behind my statement [paraphrased here] that when a company's mission fails to include its customers at or near the top of its importance list, they will fail spectacularly.

This upgrade is anything but an UP-grade from my viewpoint and Mozilla really, really, really needs to look at providing a simple "undo" "button" for this fiasco. Apparently, there will be quite a few very unhappy customers that will abandon ship if we can find something better.

Odd that no-one [officially from Mozilla] has popped in to the conversation with any comments, suggestions or apologies. Have they abandoned you as well?

Hi Randy, for --

Mostly, the color scheme is completely different, there is no line or edge or delineation between the bookmark "tabs" the screen is mostly white on white and many of the details have moved to new locations.

You can use an add-on theme to help with the background color as a I mentioned to lee37, but that doesn't return the vertical divider lines. You can temporarily revert the tab bar style for a few weeks by making the following preference change:

(1) In a new tab, type or paste about:config in the address bar and press Enter/Return. Click the button accepting the risk.

(2) In the search box in the page, type or paste browser.proton.enabled and pause while the list is filtered

(3) Double-click the preference to switch between true (new design) and false (old design)

That was kept in for testing and isn't a fully supported mode, so some things might be a touch glitchy.

This fixed the "reskin" issue. If I want to change the appearance of Firefox, I will change it. Please don't "do it for me".

chrisecobbs (at: Thu 6/3/2021 at 1:59 PM) and jscher2000

Thanks for the repeat. I have now tried it. It sort of helps.

However, as both you copied forward and he stated: it's "temporary" fix (a few weeks - maybe) and "That was kept in for testing and isn't a fully supported mode, so some things might be a touch glitchy."

Both temporary and glitchy concern me. I do NOT look forward to spending another string of days of extreme frustration trying to fix a temporary fix when Mozilla springs another "UP"grade on us.

I've previously played with the about:config file successfully, but it's a dangerous operation that can go wrong in a heartbeat - a twitchy mouse finger can do tons of damage if one's attention is distracted even for a moment. Recovery isn't easy.

I have now accomplished this recommended -- partial / temporary / glitchy "fix" -- with my tongue in the left cheek and all puckered up with the hope that I'll remember what I did and how I did it. I do not expect the fix to last long [keywords: temporary and glitchy - thanks Mozilla!]. Yes, I have some notes, but ...

jscher - again, I apologize for shooting the wrong target. Friendly fire is always bad when it misses the intended target. Chaos, irritation, frustration, confusion and a potential loss of a valuable tool contribute to that. I hope you'll forgive my misfire.

I remain upset with the "real" folks at Mozilla though!!

Hi Randy, if you need to find this thread again for future reference, you can hover your user picture at the upper right of the page and on the drop-down panel, click My Questions. See you in a few weeks?

jscher2000 Today at 3:24 PM (Thu 6/3/2021)

You said: "Hi Randy, if you need to find this thread again for future reference, you can hover your user picture at the upper right of the page and on the drop-down panel, click My Questions. See you in a few weeks?"

I don't see a user picture to the right or on the drop-down panel. Do you mean the "R" icon that takes me to "Firefox Account"? Or, perhaps the "R" icon in the upper right corner of the support.mozilla.org... page?

I think [think!] I can find my way back again from the Tab I created for this thread.

I sincerely hope that Mozilla has monitored this thread, that they make the necessary repairs to their fiasco and that I do not need to return, but if I do, I hope to see you there/here. Several of us have hammered the concept that massive changes simply for the sake of change that have nothing to do with the security of the system and doing so without warning or an "undo" option truly is extremely rude and thoroughly unacceptable behavior.

Serious question - if you don't work for Mozilla and are not affiliated with them, why do you open yourself up to the frustrations and abuse of other users? You don't sound like a martyr. Similarly - why doesn't Mozilla take the front line on these issues?

jscher2000, thank you for sticking around.

As I open Thunderbird, this Firefox update fiasco reminds me of why I am still on TBird version 69.0b4. I have just the right combo of add-ons & tweaks & it looks great, and I have been scared to allow the upgrade for some time. However, I am getting a few glitches lately... Sigh.

I think it might be due to email service providers, like Google Gmail, are doing some reconfigurations on their end.

I realized this when some of my pop account no TBirds got all screwed up. Then when I checked, it was the result of Gmail and not Tbird.

So i had to delete all the pop accounts and use Imaps from Gmail and Outlook.

I think the bottom line is that eventually the old software cannot keep up with the ever evolving technology.

Upgrade to Version 89 and lost everything -- bookmarks, add-ons, settings, homepage. Layout is very low contrast and very difficult to read. Please provide an option to fix this! This is very very awful. And now I'm starting from scratch to relocate everything. Is there any way at all to fix this?

I am going to close this thread now as it is going a bit off topic from the support request originally made.

If there are support requests people would like to make, please open new requests as appropriate.

Thank you.